Richard Grannon's 30 Day Challenge & Summoning the Self teasers

ChantalCEM

Fryek I’m allowing for the hope/possibility that this is a case wherein someone truly wants to be understood

I assume the same - projecting my own drive to bring across my message & be understood. Seems human, not?

Deef

Day 24 Exercise: Is my self love conditional?

Is my self love conditional or is it unconditional?

If it is conditional, what are those conditions?

Could it be useful to work around a conditional self love style by at least working towards not compromising on my core values?

Would it be easier to show myself self love and to be more authentic if I kept to my core values?

Deef

Deef self love conditional or is it unconditional?

text of comment:

"It’s hard to self forgive, because you’re loving
You don’t want to throw away your desire to give love and to have it land.
If you just throw that part of yourself away, it’s dehumanizing you’re less of a person. —- The path of healing is to love more. —-
If you’re trying to choose a path to love less, to close yourself, that’s the path of narcissism and they’re better at that because they’ve forgotten themselves.
But you, as a codependent, you still have a connection to yourself. So if you want to kill your connection to yourself, that’s why you have suicidal depressive urges, because that’d be the only way to love less.
You’re hardwired to love, that’s your hook, that’s part of having needs, that’s why you can see everyone else’s needs, and jump in and be a slave. Being a slave, means you’re a slave to love.
So it’s good.
We judge ourselves for being a slave for love.
Why don’t we frame it that being a slave is good?
Why don’t we spin it that love is good?
So if you spin giving love is good, then you can give love to yourself and that love has weight.
If you want to say loving the narcissist is bad, I gotta stop loving. I gotta stop falling for hoovering. Then when you self-love, your love, you’ve already labeled it as empty, as bad, so then self-love doesn’t feel very good."
transcript excerpt

7m37s

additional transcript video:

That’s a bit of a stretch but is it falling for anybody?

That was pretty good. Yeah. Well I think you’re right on Deef.
I think there’s two tricks there and tricks isn’t the right word but it’s recognizing that you’re going to love and learn to love unconditionally and not so desperately be looking for that love back that you never got from your parents and kind of keep desperately scrambling for that. I think the only way to do that really is to learn to love unconditionally without an expectation.

You see, you’re tricking yourself when you’re loving desperately. When you’re loving desperately, that assumes you don’t have enough love. That assumes there’s not enough love in the world.
Yeah or that I’m not enough, yeah, yes i am enough.
That confirms all the shame, not enough.
If you start training yourself to accept your loving others might not be received, but the part of you that you’re giving love, that’s all you can control and that’s worthy, that’s honorable. it’s honorable to love period.

Yeah I miss the person I was in the relationship.

Yes it’s honor, that’s part of the Christian pointer love god first with all your heart, and then if you want to say god is omnipresent, that means everything in the world, you should love with all your heart.
If you honor that however you want to frame it for your spiritual framework, then you can discover love is infinite, the more you love the more you give, the more love that you can still give, you can never exhaust yourself from giving love, if it’s unconditional love.
If it’s conditional love then you want something in return you can exhaust yourself, because you’re waiting for the condition.
And if you’re trying to say i need to forgive myself.
If the frequency is conditional love, you’re judging yourself: I’m a bad person until I forgive myself, that’s conditional love. Conditional love will make you feel not enough, bankrupt.
If you fully immerse yourself in unconditional love it will be reflected back from god from everything in your sphere, so you won’t be hooked on the narcissist. It will take some time to get the language right so that it fits you, and you have to get out of this self-help B.S.:
Spiritual peddling - You can’t love someone if you don’t love yourself you don’t know true forgiveness until you forgive yourself you can’t blah blah blah until blah blah blah blah

so right there is the formula of guilt or conditional love: “> you can’t whatever blah blah blah blah blah blah until…”
the until part is the condition

yeah that blew my mind last week, i’ve been thinking about it all week

So if we’re saying mantras from all the self-help inspiration porn nonsense, but it feels good, but.
It feels good because it feeds your superego, it feeds your guilt, gives you a formula A to B to C, but the condition is until, until you change or change something in your environment or get some destination you are not good enough.

this is pseudo-spiritual peddling:
you can’t love someone if you don’t love yourself
you don’t know true forgiveness until you forgive yourself

Feels good, sounds good, but how do you do this?
You have to, until, once you reach this, then you know this.
So it’s just like a koan.
it’s a mind bender to just, confuse you, but then you’re dissociated so you feel good a little because you get this sort of carrot until you forgive yourself. Now i have a goal, but how do you do that?
well you can’t blah blah blah until blah blah blah blah blah

so write this formula this is a secret or this is a trap
but this is a secret if you can see through this formula.
When people give you fix it advice or when you give people fix-it advice.
If it’s in this sort of energy it’s conditional love, it’s guilt tripping, it’s a super ego injunction, right?

it’s a super ego injunction! > or it’s this –> Respect my authority! Respect my authority! it’s a super ego injunction

You’re giving an injunction, you’re ordering yourself around with a condition.
Conditional love keeps everyone in check, but you never get free.

Deef

Deef
You don’t want to throw away your desire to give love and to have it land.
If you just throw that part of yourself away, it’s dehumanizing you’re less of a person.

My post didn’t really land that well with some of these unusual comments…

comments that don’t really address anything… or just playing dumb..
The last 2 are interesting, as it doesn’t offer much…

but that person’s post for Day 24, shows her really harsh lack of self love she has for herself and doesn’t even know how to consider even the idea of unconditional love…

The 1 like this post got is from another aggressive positivity type poster…. these might be people that use empath like bullying to punish and coerce others to have certain feelings, and shame, blame and dismiss them relentlessly for anything they don’t like… everything is conditions… or demands…

here’s a text copy of her (or his) entry..
There’s like no meaning here???
Why not just own up, and say I only believe in conditional love,
and I with-hold love to manipulate my inner child and others.??

It is too difficult to answer the questions in today’s exercise if I am considering whether love is conditional or love is unconditional. It is better for me to consider the questions in terms of the following statement:

Either love has conditions OR love has no conditions.
I believe that love has conditions. But I do not believe that love is the conditions.

When the conditions are not met, love does not disappear, it simply stops being expressed and experienced.
When I compromise my core values I fail to meet the conditions necessary to express love toward myself.
When I compromise my core values I fail to meet the conditions necessary to experience self love.

This is a correcting mechanism. When I am separated from love, I am compelled to correct the problem.

This type of mindset is just going to get more rigidified and ass-hole-ifyed by the 30dc exercises….
in that way RG is enabling this type of emotional abuser…

Deef

Day 25 Exercise: The New Self

(Direction/ Guidance)
Can we make the new self stronger than the old self?
Can we make the new self unconscious?
Can we make the new self around core values that we will not compromise on?

Answer this:
"How would that new self think?
How would that new self talk?
What actions would that new self take in the world?"

This is a fantastically wacky weird video… before watching I thought this sounds like a new fawn self, now it’s really feeling like a frankensteinian fawn self with flavors of Narcissist snapshot, but making it as an adult…. it’s just wacky, weirdo…

and it seems like he’s also admitting that this is what he’s trying to do with himself… keep sending thought patterns into this new ghost entity.. (sygil, witch-craft area) and as that thought projection gets more energy it becomes heavier and balances out his old self… and the theory is that it will become a new self….

This is so fucking amazingly wacky….. it might be pulled from witch-craft or magik, but feels like darker side of it.. not the white side of wicca…. if I had still had some wiccan contacts, i could ask for their vibe off this video…

I’ll have to let this sink in a bit more……it feels a bit disturbing…. definitely not a human path….
theoretically could be possible, but what energy, spirits or entities are you using.???

ok…. maybe I’ll also wait and see how others respond to it in the forums… that might give me some more info….

amazing… this is a big surprise…. wasn’t expecting this much crazy….

Tulpas, Egregores, Servitors, Golems What are they ? Part 1 16m38s

you don’t want your thoughtforms to think too much if you don’t want it to turn against you
that’s another warning, tuplas can do the same thing regardless of what they say
I’m sorry thousands and thousands of years these things have been created and thousands and thousands of years of warnings are not overturned because it don’t feel right to you,
because your tulpa never turned against you or got away from you or whatever

it can happen, now it usually happens with people who are ungrounded
well if you have low self-esteem or if you have a history of well any kind of mental disorder like schizophrenia or something that
you don’t want to try to summon spirits and
you don’t want to try to create them unless you’re grounded
because sometimes your imagination can get away from you

Deef

It’s been over 4 hours since the reply and nothing… so could be nada or maybe she called it a night….

Actually it was more challenging to fight back in that forum, as I don’t know the group norms nor do I trust the moderators. While I’m guessing she’s used to bullying others around, and she’s got a wide range of counter attacks or justifications if she were to get corrected or silenced.

It might be useful to just let it linger and then see that nothing happens or whatever happens isn’t as bad as my on alert nerves are sorta searching out for.

Deef Tulpas, Egregores, Servitors, Golems What are they?

This tulpa or thought form angle on what he’s actually messing with and promoting to others offers a nice piece of clarity…. that’s also similar territory that new age law of attraction is diving into…. a reboot of earlier ‘new thought movement’ and positive thinking (magical thinking) type arena….

I have interacted with lots of spiritual seekers who were emotionally bypassing.. and they did seem possessed by their self-gaslighting to brainwashing levels…. but throw in ‘thought form’ creation, they are sorta doing the same thing…. as talking to them, they’ll go into a robotic script…

and.. maybe the SJW attack playbook has a bit of scripted nature…. we’ve gone through a couple different suspected BPD like bad actors, and the phrasing or logic is very similar…. it could be a combination of ideological possession along with internalizing the group think into a running program inside their head…

3m21s

This excerpt from his classic on toxified super-ego is describing introjects as the the early thought form creation… in magic/witch-craft that’s a sigil, a spell with intention…. then with more emotional energy and trauma pain associated with it…. it then can take on a life of it’s own… and become a tulpa or servitor or autopilot like thought form or mind ghost..

But when you’re dealing with someone who’s triggered or possessed by their tulpa thoughtform… nothing goes in… it is like an AI program… it’s stupid… but it’s also super fast and single pointed focus on a mission…

…… oh… so if a codependent tries to heal their inner critic toxified super ego with a new thought form…. battle of good vs evil mind ghosts…. sure, I can see how that might technically work…. but the newly formed self is still an artifice… a mask.. a thought form/mind ghost that is naturally disconnected from reality….

So.. a new abuser, can just hack into that new self… and then plant suggestions to slowly reprogram it… through gaslighting, trauma bonding… or re-triggering dormant programming of people pleasing and conflict aversion…
easy peasy….

A codependent can fool themselves that they’ve deactivated their people pleasing and conflict aversion tendencies… but under stress, worn down attrition warfare strategy and poor sleep/diet hygiene…. an abuser can find that old programming and re-activate it….

Then BAM!!! repetition compulsion!! the old fawn self comes back to life.. and takes over….

Artificial thought forms, yes they can sort of work… it’s like having a friend in your ear to help guide you… but once created you’ve got a thought form that also never shuts the fuck up…. do people really want that???

sheesh….

anyway….

Day 26 Exercises Rest and Digest

If you are of a mind to do something take some of the more challenging exercises and redo them in short, brief form (no more than 20 minutes) and share with the group.

If you want to just relax feel free to do so.

A rest day for Sunday…. and 30 day challenge could be coming to a close soon?? Just 4 days left???
not that much time left, so maybe 1 more Q&A but there’s no announcement about it yet..

Deef

Stumbled upon this from a quora question… it feels like there’s some accuracy in here.. but it could also be easily argued it’s fear mongering… but come on… creating thought forms that take over and erase your old self???
Shouldn’t there be some worry diving into this sort of territory?

seems like this is reddit thread is an origin of the visual

Deef

Just posted this, possibly higher chance of getting deleted?? or maybe I’ll also get kicked out?

Though if he is under a spell of that Mexican witch doctor, he’d probably read it and not get it.. or think it’s about someone else??

Deef

Deef higher chance of getting deleted?? or maybe I’ll also get kicked out?

so far not deleted… actually got some decent comments, and someone reached out via email with just a thank you… (she liked the post but maybe too scared to comment publicly?? hmm)

this last comment is a not so veiled threat… but it’s not from a moderator… so she can fuck off..

ChantalCEM

Deef this last comment is a not so veiled threat

Just received one of the same writer with the implicit message to get back into the “crab basket” (aka do as we all do)

ChantalCEM

ChantalCEM Just received one of the same writer with the implicit message to get back into the “crab basket” (aka do as we all do)

My reply to her on the forum
“I’m wondering which (unmet) needs urges you to point out an implicit message that I should do as the Master tells me to & obey the presented format.”

ChantalCEM

ChantalCEM
My reply to her on the forum:

@Jo I’m wondering which (unmet) needs urges you to point out an implicit message that I should do as the Master tells me to & obey the presented format.

Oh… she continued - as expected

My apologies Chantal CEM. I mistook the question in your post as an honest attempt to grapple with the content of this course. What compels me to encourage you to do the work (even though it can sometimes feel as though it is stretching you too far) is my sincere hope that you will heal from codependence. Richard Grannon is not my Master. I started watching him 4 years ago and it took 2 years to decide to try his hand mnemonic. It worked, so I tried more of his stuff, which also worked. Do it or don’t.

Chantal CEM
@Jo I see you’re amplifying your urge to comply to the presented format. My random guess is that it could be very scary to individuate - this could be my projection as I sense how afraid I feel when speaking up for my thoughts, feeling & point of view without censoring or editing to “fit in”.

Am I? Or am I simply offering a sincere apology and explanation whilst speaking up for my own point of view- ie that I have not elevated Richard to the status of a ‘Master’. I mean it when I say do it or don’t. Only you can decide if and when something is right for you.

Chantal CEM
@Jo I notice you’re persisting in your urge to meet your own (unmet) need- as I expected it to roll out - since you act out your urge to others in this community too.

Since I prefer to attend to a more interesting debate I close this down with repeating my initial stance
Recalling how long it took me to find out who I am; I can’t imagine I would give that up for you

No reply after this.

Pfff… felt bored after take 2 .
Deef was right. Wasted my time on this one.

Deef While I’m guessing she’s used to bullying others around

🎯 Received private message from other group member after my last reply
I translate literally “She bullies me too. More of us. Moderator does nothing”

Deef

Chantal was too open ended, it brought on more malicious side jabs..

Reading that, it led me to stupidly try my own hand at pushing back on her…. this is my attempt, though she still might find a way to slime back. Which would still be evidence that RG’s stuff is enabling bad actors to become bigger assholes.

I was gonna be a lot harsher, but I don’t know how far I can go with the moderators. Though it’s almost over so what else do I have to lose?

ChantalCEM

Deef Chantal was too open ended, it brought on more malicious side jabs..

Yep. My intention was to explore & see how far I can go - I expected her to amplify - she did that before with others too. And I can see your point of view that a straight kill is more effective.

My reply on the community forum
@Jo
I see you’re amplifying your urge to comply to the presented format. My random guess is that it could be very scary to individuate - this could be my projection as I sense how afraid I feel when speaking up for my thoughts, feeling & point of view without censoring or editing to “fit in”.

Deef

Deef this is my attempt, though she still might find a way to slime back.

Here is her slime back, digs in deeper with more cognitive dissonance and side jabs:

Plays innocent while stabbing judgment …. quite malicious…
I thought of pointing out her tactics or arguing content, but that’s jumping into her sandbox…
So I tried some psychologizing of her and then re-direct to RG...

I tried not to do direct accusations or specifics as she could flip that. And if she’s more BPD, if I could lay on sad baby and pity…. amplifying shame and spotlight, that might stick somewhat?

It’s still a lose lose cause, as Chantal has discovered….

ChantalCEM

Deef I thought of pointing out her tactics or arguing content, but that’s jumping into her sandbox…

Check.

Deef So I tried some psychologizing of her and then re-direct to RG…

Oh.. smart move. Seems a fragility in BPD’s (perhaps other clusterB too?) resisting psychologizing.

Deef It’s still a lose lose cause, as Chantal has discovered

Yep. I walked my stubborn way & hit the fan.

Deef

got this email notification…. Someone else is jumping into Jo’s bullying comments and standing up to her!! yayy

and I wonder if RG’s recent revisit to the bombarding by borderlines video clip might’ve been also related to me sharing that video clip in my reply to Jo?

So he’s getting to see how to stand up to abusive empath/BPD’s, instead of just blocking, erasing or running away…

Still too early to be celebrating though…. I’m sure she can still regroup and find another way to attack…
……
holy moly… she replied.. a partial admission of fault???

Deef

Trying to unwind and break out of the 30dc pattern…. but get sucked back in with Jo’s side attacks…

of which that Monday post I don’t see any notification in my email about it… how’d she slip that positive image protection post in there… but notice it’s only an apology for commenting, no ownership of the content of what she wrote.

I think I caught her with trying to get the last word in. But who knows?

Deef holy moly… she replied.. a partial admission of fault???

here’s the link to prior back and forth from 4 days ago… you can’t really win with these types….
possibly a schizoid defense. they’re just relentless.

Deef

Day 27 Exercises on individuating with a stronger sense of self.

Direction: do this in the spirit of helping yourself to heal as much as you can, doing ALL you can to move yourself in the right direction. Put some fight into your decision and intent to heal and to thrive.

Take on the exercises from days 7,9,10
7 - feel safe when i set my boundaries
9 - Identify what happens when you say NO
10 - Guilt Mines

Take no more than 25 minutes to review your notes from these days and to redo them in a brief way.

Remember the intent is to put yourself back in the driving seat, knowing no one is going to fix this for you, there is just you fixing it FOR you.

It should be fairly easy in application to get these exercises done. If it gets difficult step back and rest.

This attitude of fixing yourself, can project broken-ness upon the target. Is it my plan or God’s plan?
or is it ‘Not my will but Thy Will be done.’? is that the scripture or prayer?

Deef

Deef the intent is to put yourself back in the driving seat

Okay.. I’ll key off this portion of Day 27

full text:

re: “intent is to put yourself back in the driving seat”

I started the year off with an intention to openly challenge weaponized victim cry bullies. From a handful of interactions so far. I tried consequences, boundaries and shared language with limited success. I also complimented that with posture, position and space (maneuver warfare), which helped me survive less scathed and recover a bit better. #VG

But recently I’m wondering if it’s more about dealing with projections and the schizoid reaction? The other side of splitting Aggressive Decency (ostentatious displays of vulnerability) is easier to spot. But this schizoid reaction (shared fantasy projection, smoke & mirrors distortion of reality, gaslighting) is trickier. Setting boundaries and maneuvering doesn’t seem like it’s enough.
And actually, I could easily argue that too much boundary setting, definitions & ego defenses makes one even more vulnerable to a schizoid attack.

No quick fixes here, I’m gonna stay lost and continue exploring in this schizoid space for now.
—————–
Quoting Sam Vaknin who’s summarizing research findings:
“the schizoid cannot accept rejection and endeavors to completely repress the hunger for love
the schizoid relates to the outer object world in a realistic but emotionally shallow manner

if you’re a schizoid you will react with obsession
this obsessive fantasy gradually will impair your reality testing so dramatically
that you will try to force the fantasy on reality
you will try to enact the fantasy
you will try to carry out behaving as though your fantasy was reality
and this is very dangerous”

55s

added on a comment & visual to offer additional framing.

Deef

Some comments for my Day 27 post

Very powerful insights. I respect and admire your experiments at setting boundaries. Even the most seemingly common sense boundaries seem to be an invitation for immature antics and tomfoolery.

Recently reflecting on Theramin Trees video “Resisting Blackmail,” and the Academy of Ideas “Why Are Most People Cowards?,” it dawned on me that cowards view boundaries, as buttons. And toddlers just HAVE to push buttons when testing the limits of their mothers.

And then it reminded me of one of my favourite quotes from the movie Girl, Interrupted, where the resident sociopath says, “You know, there’s too many buttons in the world. There’s too many buttons and they’re just - there’s way too many just begging to be pressed, they’re just begging to be pressed, you know?”

The timing was just too perfect. Any attempt to establish personal autonomy or individuation is seen as an attack on their perceived reality. Even the gentlest “no thank you” seems reason enough to induce mockery and holding firm is “reason enough” to provoke narcissistic rage.

This one is quite insightful and adds on some nice metaphors & movie reference.
Plus simplifies it down, setting boundaries can be seen as an attack on their reality. Or felt like an invitation to push buttons or to test the boundaries.

…..

Helping or fixing a person who’s in this schizoid position of obsessive fantasy. THEY don’t see anything wrong with their fantasy! So most any and all help is gonna be seen as invalidating their reality.
So if you go in assuming an unmet need, that will just run into a brick wall of their projection.

Maybe, you could try to use reality as leverage against their fantasy. But that’d be either spotlighting by really direct and effortless statements of raw truth, or you could position them to have reality come and collapse down on their fantasy. Set them up for a total failure?

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