Richard Grannon's 30 Day Challenge & Summoning the Self teasers

Deef

ChantalCEM check out first video of the course “breaking trauma bond”

I looked around and found his post with the pre-start homework of trauma bond course…. and it’s an add on bonus for me, as I didn’t have that course in my kajibi… however quick review of the pdf file and first 2 videos… seems like a good amount of NLP flavor of forced memory processing and forgetting…. On first glance I’d argue that this might work faster in short term, but it could also lead to repetition compulsion….

As evidenced by RG’s claim in this old video that he’s used the method successfully for himself…. but fell for it again… I’d argue cuz he didn’t get to whatever the hook is within the trauma bond… if the unmet need isn’t addressed, it’s very likely to just happen again in the future….

But it will be interesting to see how this course will lead into the 30DC start.. It’s of limited use to me, as I don’t process memories verbally in my head… and I’m not trying to get rid of any trauma bond… actually if I had a strong one, I’d be exploring the heck out of it and milking it for as much learning and self discovery as possible…

Deef

Not sure how to best track the 30 Day challenge since it’s not being done publicly….

but here’s the written exercise for day 1

Today is a written exercise for overcoming narcissistic abuse and avoiding it for the future.
Please do the exercise and take a picture of your handwritten notes and share it in the community or just type it out as a post (then keep a copy of it for your records).

Dealing with narcissistic abuse Exercise 1: recognising manipulation

Remember its ALL a performance to elicit a response from you

How do you see the person you are thinking of doing certain behaviours to elicit a response from you?

List the manipulative behaviours think of 5 to 10 examples.

HOW did they manipulate you?
Was it an overt request or was it implied?
List that next to your above list of behaviours. (Write either “overt” or “Implied” or “both”)

List the scenarios where you were manipulated, 3 to 5 Is enough.

This is rational analysis and judgement : a major taboo for codependents,
but the first thing we must learn to do to heal from the abuse and avoid it in the future.

We must train our minds to see things as they truly are.

So maybe I’ll try to share some of my read and reactions to the approach presented…
I’m not crazy about the avoidance and somewhat paranoia vibe that’s being presented so far. Feels like a never again thing, and using labels of manipulation and abuse to try to shame them back after the fact.

And I’ll have to dig into my ex-gf to see if there were conscious performances to manipulate behaviors, or it’s more that she was just regressing to child part, and fighting to win and contain her emotional flashbacks.

But……. if this exercise does land well with lots of the group and RG, then that points towards quite an oblivious type of love relationship partner?? Is it really this bad?

Relistening to Day 0 and Day 1, the shared fantasy trap that I’m sensing out is that the codependent falls for transactional attitude of love, of which has an underlying assumption that there isn’t enough love. There’s un-met needs being battled for, and you must get someone else to change to get yours met.

That’s somewhat true as a child, but as an adult… is that true anymore? I’d counter argue, that codependents continue feeling insecure, anxious and needy; because they continue projecting that responsibility into other people’s hands… and only a crazy person would take on that role, as they can also take that given away ownership, to manipulate the heck out of a codependent, who gave away their power…. duhh??

So what’s getting in the way of a codependent from more assertively working towards their own unmet needs???

Going into the trauma to clean out the wound, tend to it and try to meet whatever unmet needs are in there
Living a respectable life so your conscience doesn’t eat away your soul.
Not fall into the trap of blaming manipulators and becoming 100% blameless, as then you have to wait for them to change before you can grow.
Reframe past manipulations and discharge the resentment and covert contracts unspoken expectations you had; and forgive that burden on them.
etc.?

opps… I’m supposed to be trying to follow along with his mindset a bit more….. uhm… ok..
manipulation is badd… okay? badd!!

and a common tactic he referenced in day 1 is this:

Ostentatious Displays of Vulnerability 20s

Of which I’d counter with…. recognizing when it’s cry bullying victim card!!
1m32s

Then to get out of arguing realities….
“There is No Sincere Communication with the Insincere” 8x loop 33s

and… I’ll try again to revisit the written exercise and take it a bit more seriously.. or look up other’s examples and see if I can copy along… I guess I’m having trouble judging manipulation as equal to abuse and that as equal to bad…. I’m seeing that as close to demonizing rather normal human behavior and interaction dynamics…

ChantalCEM

Deef transactional attitude of love, of which has an underlying assumption that there isn’t enough love

In my point of view - this is what (some)mothers use as a mean to discipline their child.
And (some) others (ab)use it to control their child in all area’s of life. Even continuing to do so when the child is all grown up.
The transactional love aka working hard for some crumbs of attention/approval becomes the blueprint in the young child’s mind - leading to repetition compulsion to the exact same type of transactional love.

Changing that blueprint by working toward own unmet needs? Sure.
Taking back ownership of own power? Sure.
But I’d argue that it is not because one is an adult now that everything can be learned/worked/owned again - just because of the mere fact that one is an adult now. I assume that to be an illusion to the human condition.
Some things humans need to experience before getting to “know” it.
I consider transactional love to be one of that - as I learned with my own children what another kind of love could feel like.

Deef

Deef Today is a written exercise for overcoming narcissistic abuse and avoiding it for the future.

We must train our minds to see things as they truly are.

Back to the 30dc…
I’m gonna step out on a limb and say that codependent manipulation is just as worse if not MORE WORSE than Narcissistic abuse!!

Enabling weakness… and invading other people’s inner child… through external projections of one’s harsh inner critic…. that’s pretty darn abusive…. and just as lingering if not worse….

Often child abuse survivors find it harder to make sense of and over-come the enablers of the family, who gaslit on top of their abuse… the overt abuser, often will own up to the abuse… or has a long history, so it’s eventually easier to come to terms with that overt abuser…

But….. codependent abuse… of which can also be applied by fragile narcissists and grandiose NPD. that’s a festering gaslighting… that’s the learned helplessness that lingers forever and ever…

therapists continue it…. support groups… social media influencers… probably almost every healing path has tons of codependents who enable fawn self to thrive… keep the fantasy going… keep parasitically feeding off other people’s inner children…. maybe worshiping the devouring mother archetype?

Deef Dealing with narcissistic abuse Exercise 1: recognising manipulation

So that’s my spin on exercise #1….
I’m finding codependent manipulation just as harmful…. if not more… enabling is one pointer, but there should be a harsher sounding precise pointer… to how much long-term damage a codependent can do to others….. or maybe they infect their weakness into other people’s blood stream??? not just learned helplessness…. a contagious shared helplessness….

no crab is allowed to climb out… Crab mentality metaphor…
12s

Deef

new 30dc is starting with the exact same exercise for Day 1:

Deef but here’s the written exercise for day 1

Today is a written exercise for overcoming narcissistic abuse and avoiding it for the future.
Please do the exercise and take a picture of your handwritten notes and share it in the community or just type it out as a post (then keep a copy of it for your records).

Dealing with narcissistic abuse Exercise 1: recognising manipulation

Remember its ALL a performance to elicit a response from you
How do you see the person you are thinking of doing certain behaviours to elicit a response from you?
List the manipulative behaviours think of 5 to 10 examples.
HOW did they manipulate you?
Was it an overt request or was it implied?
List that next to your above list of behaviours. (Write either “overt” or “Implied” or “both”)
List the scenarios where you were manipulated, 3 to 5 Is enough.

This is rational analysis and judgement : a major taboo for codependents,
but the first thing we must learn to do to heal from the abuse and avoid it in the future.

We must train our minds to see things as they truly are.

this is my entry with a bit more aggressive sharing of my YT content…. cuz I’ve already explored recognizing manipulation multiple on multiple times, getting lost in weeds of specifics of how I was manipulated and who did it, is kinda petty and might veer into outer critic territory…. control freak stuff… along with just self pity deep dive….

oh… also I’m hesitant with reinforcing the avoidance mindset…..

I did this back in January, and this time I will try to follow along in the spirit of each exercise but with A LOT of creative personalization.

At the beginning of this year, I had 2 intentions, of which I’m continuing to explore:

1) Bring Back Shame
2) taking on and calling out Safetyism.

I’ve recently added this:
3) Expand on & refine The Outer Critic theory - (ie. as the Intimacy Saboteur)

But for my Day 1’s exercise theme of recognizing manipulation

I think calling out safetyism, vulnerability bulles, and shame masked as empathy (smothering) is a major manipulation tactic that I think is worthy of learning how to spot.

And I’m still wracking my brains on how to actively counter this tactic, along with having options of attacking back.

This clip was a really eye opening discovery when I did a deep dive study of Brene Brown’s Atlas of the Heart. I suspected she had cluster B traits, but wow, her own self description is being quite an emotional bully.

4m31s

#VG

The video clip has some cursing in it, and it’s calling out a very popular teacher, which might get some strong reactions… but RG isn’t a fan of Brene Brown, so maybe it will pass…. this will be a test to see how much restriction I’ll be facing from the moderators…..

and if I trigger some other members, that’s fine… it’ll be opportunity for more practice…..

oh….. I did this add on comment to my post….. adding a bit more posturing to test the boundaries and room for expression in this group….

and for those who might be considering tone policing to limit or distract from my creative expression.
Here’s a more specific detailing of recognizing manipulation, and mapping it out in 2 simple steps. 🙄

Let’s see if there’s anyone stupid enough to respond back with any of the manipulation tactics I listed out??

Though… it feels like it might be a smaller group this time… but I’ll know a bit better after a few days….

Deef

Okay…. I scanned through the Day 1 exercise posts… and I’m gonna give an unfiltered first reaction.. of which might come across as highly judgmental… harsh… un-relating… non-empathetic???

ChantalCEM Some things humans need to experience before getting to “know” it.

But this is part of the crux of it… no one has actual experience of tolerating emotional intensity, uncertainty, genuine full blown aggression….

As an example…. I just full out mildly screamed and scolded my mom about Christianity’s stupid evangelism and total self-deception… I spewed out disgust… pointed out my mom’s own lies and ignorance… and tried to shame ⅓ or even half of Christians in general…. my heart rate is partially higher, and I feel a little surge of adrenaline…

She totally deflected it, and didn’t feel or show any signs of damage…. as my dad’s anger was much stronger and more unpredictable with much harsher judgments… but it was about narrow precise behaviors or annoyances…. it wasn’t about character assassination or ego defense stuff that westerners get all involved in…

Anyway… trying to get back to the point… I have been experience with raw aggression.. receiving and giving… though my giving tends to be limited only to at home and in controlled situations… I haven’t yet figured out how to do it outside of family, as people can’t tolerate it… or I can’t nuance and channel it, in a way that I could get away with it… but also not face a group mob reaction….

Partially cuz my aggression has more flavors of raw shame, and I don’t how to easily switch it into guilt/blame, and ego attacks…

Some things humans need to experience before getting to “know” it.

But….. back to the 30 day challenge……. watching the videos and reading the forums… it’s been very very insightful.. but also utterly shocking… at the pure ignorance and just utter lack of will power that i’m sensing by the members.. but also RG based on how the teaching is structured….

I am having a tough time reconciling this inner weakness.. with the fucking ego defensive hubris and one-upsmanship I deal with quite regularly in zoom meetings and also in person meetings…. WTF…. your fawn self is fronting with a tough person act, but under a real life relationship or family member with narcissist… people are caving for the tiniest type of things… plus the amount of service and giving away all your needs to your partner….

OMG… wtf??? I really should just go get myself a good codependent, and have them be a slave for me…. sheesh…
(but I couldn’t do all the petty emotional manipulations…so it wouldn’t work)…

…. I want to give some examples for case studies.. but not sure how to do it on here without breaking privacy… so I’ll just reference this comment as an example of codependent’s blindspot…

It is extremely embarrassing to share all the ways I allow myself to be mistreated…

This conclusion is so totally stupid…. it’s self blame that’s worse than victim blaming… it’s trying to control something that’s not in your control…. it’s not about allowing or not… it’s not a yes or no… more so you have to actively struggle and continue to work to get treated properly and better…. proper treatment is not some fucking entitled human right… other people don’t even fucking see you… especially self centered westerner’s lost in their digital devices and constant hero autobiographical narratives….

and it’s fucking naive to have fallen for whatever wounded healer or neurotic lame therapist who’s touting some magical boundary setting technique, where you just have to stand strong and keep demanding to be treated properly…. ???!
who’s selling this stupid shit???

Oh.. probably a fragile narcissist …..

all you idiot codependents thinking you’re breaking the trauma bond by messing with your memories to forget your last relationship… and then find a wounded healer, self help guru, or therapist that’s just another narcissistic abuser to gaslight you with more fantasy short cuts that DO NOT work…

opps…. I’m getting a bit too harsh… lemme try to tone it down… gotta be mindful of the audience that can go into flashbacks on a dime… or dissociate quite quickly on any sorta too close encounter with the truth… or even an encounter with just a slightly differing viewpoint….

I’m at a loss here…. are codependents this fucking blind… this fucking stupid and ignorant… this paralyzed from childhood programming??? at this level of pure slave mentality????

that’s somewhat shocking…. ok… a bit more disturbing….

but… if that’s true… then WHY all over-confident rescuing and fixing of other’s problems…. y’all act so eager and aggressive in offering solutions…. if you’re such gigantic failures in your own life…
GOD DAMN..
STAY THE FUCK OUT OF OTHER people’s LIVES….
You guys SUCK in your life…. fix your damn self, before diving into other people’s fucked up messes…..

Why the fuck do people even want to bother with working with other’s people crazyness??? It’s a damn headache… and major pain in the ass…. plus the damn responsibility of not making things worse for them…. along with having to be patient allowing them to find their own way and in their own time (that’s a horrendous chore)…

……….. sigh… a few deep breath… taking a breather….. now what to cover… this is already a bit of a rant… (more so flavor of material for my journal) ……..

OK…… break it down into some basic strategic flaws…

I’m concerned about this focus on identify your abuser & their manipulation… and that will somehow help prevent in future…
This creates an avoidance mindset, along with falling into dumping resentment on them as a bad guy and then trying to get even with the next person….. fuck that shit…

I’d more so intentionally stew in my mistakes… and figure out what blindspot of mine, lack of skill, or what else I could learn from the loss….. also I’d start with fully owning being a loser, failure, not good enough…. fuck blame…or making a stupid rule… I lost… I got duped… I got beat…. I messed up… totally… yes… own my fucking weakness and limitation… and pour some gas to amplify it….

If you research GOAT athletes and other competitors…. many use similar motivations after losses….

in fact..
UFC former champion fighter Josh Barnett describes it here…. 2m03s

Part of my success is that when i win i’m brutal, when i lose i’m brutal
and there is no in between

that’s usually the only time people, calamity is the impetus for them to actually turn around and go
who the fuck am i? what am i doing? and why am i doing it?

And that level of drive is for greatness… it’s not needed to deal with a narcissist who’s impulsive and has hardly any true guts and determination to stay around when things get uncomfortable…. you can just out-will a narcissist pretty easy…. ohh… opps.. Echo codependents also have very little will power…. ugh….

2nd point… this is a bit more nuanced… so just made video clip of 30 day challenge prep opener video

1m03s

we fundamentally in our core never learned healthy love
we can’t really connect in a healthy loving adult way with other people
so we have to learn to do that
what i can give you inside of 30 days though is
i can give you the strategies the patterns of behavior and the skills to model,
that people who do love themselves and are capable of inhabiting their own lives and their own bodies
what they do and through copying consciously what healthy people do w
ill move ourselves forward along the line from healing from codependency
and through copying consciously copying copying copying
faking it drives me crazy
copying copying faking, copying faking faking copying faking

I don’t agree with learning by copying….. I’d argue that you need to learn by fucking up… at a minimum maybe half half… or at least do equal amounts of learning from your fuckups….
Learning by copying falls into three potential traps….

Copying is just another way of fawn
Copying reinforces fakeness, hiding your authenticity
Copying can be just rote memorization and intellectualization (reinforcing dissociation)

Also learning healthy love by coping other people’s end results.. is stupid… it’s cheating.. and it doesn’t work… the end result of healthy relationship is all the behind the scenes foundational fundamentals, long term build up trust, and a working relationship.. if you just copy the end result of healthy… WTF??
Go try copying when healthy relationships have high stress, that’d be a better model to copy.. but that’d be hard to execute in real time… as it’d be trigggeerrring….. so better to fool yourself by copying healthy relationships in an ideal low stress interaction…. blehhh….

idiot strategy…..
but that’s not RG’s doing…. That’s the same appoach for attachment theory… stigmatize insecure attachment into 3 categories, and then tell those losers to copy secure attachment…. well you fucking idiot cheating copy cat losers…. let’s go put a secure attachment person in the middle of a chaotic big family with tons of C-PTSD and deception, let’s see how well that secure attachment person survives in a totally disorganized fucked up family…..

Most secure attachment people aren’t so secure, if taken out of their element…

ok.. end rant.. apologies, maybe I’ll warm up to the method by the middle?? lol…

Bradford

Deef I’d more so intentionally stew in my mistakes… and figure out what blindspot of mine, lack of skill, or what else I could learn from the loss….. also I’d start with fully owning being a loser, failure, not good enough…. fuck blame…or making a stupid rule… I lost… I got duped… I got beat…. I messed up… totally… yes… own my fucking weakness and limitation… and pour some gas to amplify it….

Deef I’d argue that you need to learn by fucking up

100% Agree! This makes you bullet proof to shame and consequently manipulation. Nothing can touch you if you own the fuck out of everything you’ve done (and do) and take 100% responsibility and ownership no matter how ugly. Anything else is just lipstick on a pig.

ChantalCEM

Deef no one has actual experience of tolerating emotional intensity, uncertainty, genuine full blown aggression….

Side effect/collateral damage of socialisation aka upbringing of children I guess??

Deef Why the fuck do people even want to bother with working with other’s people crazyness??? It’s a damn headache… and major pain in the ass…. plus the damn responsibility of not making things worse for them…. along with having to be patient allowing them to find their own way and in their own time (that’s a horrendous chore)…

Not sitting alone in my own crazyness - shared lunacy - belonging to a select club of delusional rescuers - feeding my Fawn Self maintaining its value - in this grandiosity collateral damage/responsibility to/for others is the least I care for - sitting together, staring at our own belly button .
That’s some of the fun I’m keeping my mind (and whatever else) busy with - repetition compulsion aka addiction.

Buzz

Bradford
100% Agree! This makes you bullet proof to shame and consequently manipulation. Nothing can touch you if you own the fuck out of everything you’ve done (and do) and take 100% responsibility and ownership no matter how ugly. Anything else is just lipstick on a pig.

I disagree. You are going to make more of those this things you are calling mistakes.

Fryek

Well, it seems the bloom is off the rose (RG)? I know that RG is a great guy - interesting, handsome, flawed, intelligent, charismatic, etc. I don’t do the type of research and close inspection that Deef and Brad do… HOWEVER… I do recall getting rather bent out of shape feeling (FEELING) that RG was a little off and I do recall Deef becoming a bit defensive?

Deef do you recall the reasons you were defensive? That RG (and you) is/are “out there” being a public figure… offering an opinion and therefore have a target? I felt that RG was disingenuous but somehow that triggered you Deef (i was never talking about you, but i noticed that you defended RG as though I was)… interesting.

I love that the RG rant fest thread (now with 111 posts) was started cuz Kurt (hence my avatar on the thread) had some ranting to do about RG… and now it’s ALL Deef’s thing!?

meh… I didn’t have any real research/ precise observations to make… so I was done rather quickly with the topic… and it makes sense that Deef is struggling with specific issues, presentations, patterns, etc… me? I was just annoyed that he was unable to take his own medicine or much recognize that he was a hypocrite? Here… in his 30 day challenge, I see that Deef… you’re carrying over your RG rant comments, now directing them at the FOLLOWERS (and they are followers) of RG… he has a cult, not a self help group… so few (in my non-scientific, purely feeling, purely meta observation) seem to be interested in real change/growth… most are simply wanting to hear more from RG and do more window-dressing toward change… this is a surprise? Really? Come on… don’t get all angry that these dogs have spots, step back and wonder why you ever went to a combined Dalmatian/Firemen convention! Yes… we can learn a bit about fire safety… but really… ultimately the same people will be talking about the same things in 10 years… and all will be just as passionate about it! AND ALARMED about fire safety!

oh, well… vent away Deef… Not asking for a medal… just had to stir something up for fun.

Deef

Fascinating critiques… or is it just innuendo and slinging mud? with the whirlwind structure of random blasts from multiple directions…..

oh….. after the initial blast..I think I’m sensing where this might be coming from….. but I’ll probably still be off, and you can still spin my head around and stir things up more….. of course… that’s part of my critique of RG and his followers…. but it’s more so codependents in general….. and you’re welcome to claim that you saw it first…. and point that out as some moral high ground?

Fryek I was just annoyed that he was unable to take his own medicine or much recognize that he was a hypocrite?

Here might be a bit spot where we differ….. if somehow isn’t aware of their blindspot.. how they’re being fake or a hypocrite…. I try not to attack them for being ignorant of their ignorance…. yes I share with you frustration about that… but I find that it doesn’t really work to increase pressure on a person or teacher of their blindspot…
because they’re blind to it.

ALSO….. for me.. being neurodiverse….. I have gigantic blindspots that other people DO NOT consider or accomodate for, and often unconsciously take advantage of my blindspot.. because they see my super strengths in other areas…. so then I have to spend an inordinate amount of effort and energy tending to a blindspot of mind, or just slow/different processing area…. so yes… I tend to give more room for other’s blindspots, cuz people actively abuse and manipulate due to my blindspot……

or…. I can spin blindspot as code for owning humanity…. and when there’s aggressive attacks on other’s blindspots, it often feels like dehumanization…. and I’m guessing with (my senses and pattern recognition) that it could be a projection of their own super-ego and similar to how they fucking dehumanize their own inner child… and core self… and they use external gurus and wounded healers…. as scapegoat targets to dump their dehumanization…. cuz it feels better to tear down an external projection and it gives the inner critic a break from exiling and constantly dehumanizing and suffocating their inner child energy….

Deef… you’re carrying over your RG rant comments, now directing them at the FOLLOWERS (and they are followers) of RG… he has a cult, not a self help group…

meh… I didn’t have any real research/ precise observations to make…
so I was done rather quickly with the topic…

I could challenge your behavior to match this baseless claim….
if you’re really done, then why are you bring up a history of old offenses?

Here… in his 30 day challenge, I see that Deef… you’re carrying over your RG rant comments, now directing them at the FOLLOWERS

I agree that I’m carrying them over…. of which I’d counter… that’s continuity of an observation and theory… vs intentional fragmenting..

as for directing them at the followers…. I’m think I’m directing it at codependents in general, and their strategy and inner mindset…. and the fucking inconsistency between their public fawn self and actual inner fragility…..
and I’m also quite resentful that I was duped by their fawn self’s ego defenses and arguments, while their inner history is falling apart to narcissists…. who just lie to them, emotionally bully them, and codependents cave….

Some of the examples are quite horrific… physical abuse, tons of $$$ given away…. it really touched my heart… I shouldn’t be somewhat unsettled at their ignorance and mindset, that’s contributing this to continuing??

RG… he has a cult, not a self help group…

Point me to a real self help group?? aren’t they all cults? even therapy? this charge is meaningless if his followers is within the norm…

so few seem to be interested in real change/growth…

I agree and disagree with this.. it’s a bit paradoxical…. yes there’s tons of evidence of avoidance… that’s my rant side.. but the effort, energy and $$$ they put into this area… that behavior points towards desire for change…. but I’d argue it’s more so their demands of how the healing should come about….. that ‘never again’ and resentful drive, is more of the issue…

Come on… don’t get all angry

oh, well… vent away Deef…

just had to stir something up for fun

Which of the 3 is true? or all of them? or a 4th that’s unlisted???
Did I get too angry? am I too mean? was I too emotional?
venting is allowed, not allowed…it’s good ? it’s bad? or should I self-obsess internally about venting in general from a meta sense…. why am I venting at all…. do you want me to sow doubt into my venting?

ahh… is this really about your fun? I can see some of it could be from that… I also see there could be many pragmatic benefits from your stirring things up…. also some potential revenge type motives as mentioned in the start of your own comments which I could also classify as venting.

Deef do you recall the reasons you were defensive?
That RG (and you) is/are “out there” being a public figure… offering an opinion and therefore have a target?
I felt that RG was disingenuous but somehow that triggered you Deef
(i was never talking about you, but i noticed that you defended RG as though I was)… interesting.

I am happy to dig up my reasoning with specifics, but I don’t think that’s your preference to get into specifics, as you’ve somewhat stated that position in the past…. but generalizing for simplification…. if RG is making a point that I think is a good, or I’m trying to bring up a theme from his point…. if someone just attacks his character, as fake… I find that triggering, because it’s an obstacle to the message and content I’m trying to bring into the conversation… or point out with the video clip…

And this is also my rant about social media dynamics…. the audience seems to feel free to ad-hominem influencers as public figures….. and this is fucking easy to do, as everyone is a flawed human being… but the attacks are often to attack the messenger to sour the message…

Most influencers have softened their message because of this (cancel culture overblown)…. so I spend a lot of time and get invested in the few that I find, and curate their material, to use as conversation starters…..
so, yes, sometimes when someone attacks the messenger to disrupt the message… I get triggered, act out, defensive, go ape shit… sometimes I find that as sabotaging the meeting, theme, group, etc. It’s disruptive, but often just for that purpose.. there’s limited pragmatic angle, other than a big ass fuck you…sloppy counter-dependent strategy….

I’ll flip the fucking game table over.. and ruin everyone’s game… if i’m unhappy…. this is my oldest brother’s mindset of which I got him to openly admit… I find that a bit hitting too low.. but it is also a good strategy….

I love that the RG rant fest thread (now with 111 posts) was started cuz Kurt
(hence my avatar on the thread) had some ranting to do about RG…
and now it’s ALL Deef’s thing!?

I find this argument is weird….. is this a venting, that I’ve hijacked your ownership and origin of the RG rant fest?
Or is it a vent that a RG rant fest got taken away from RG content tracker thread???
or that this 30 day challenge tracker has turned into a bit of a rant fest…
(of which I’m self judging my posts to wonder whether to transfer to the RG rant thread or moved to a less public place)

ok.. circling around to opening paragraph….

Fryek Well, it seems the bloom is off the rose (RG)?

Is this is framing that finally others can see the light?? I’d argue there was new data since early days… in particular his recent relationship reveal… repeating his repetition compulsion there.. but also his re-writing of his book, which is covering same realizations he shared in april 2020…. and now this 30dc and end of SLC transition shows evidence of repetition compulsion…. it’s a good case study….

Are we supposed to just shut it down and move onto another focus? or is it more we should go back to old positions and beat ourselves up for that? or is it about giving you attention for something?

Fryek HOWEVER… I do recall getting rather bent out of shape feeling

(FEELING)

that RG was a little off and I do recall Deef becoming a bit defensive?

ok.. so is this it… do you want your FEELINGS validated?? you had a vibe in the past.. and did you feel your feelings weren’t adequately validated? Me being defensive, was threatening or invalidating to your feelings?

If we’re gonna stay in the realm of feelings, then we can say feelings are inarguable…. letting you have you feelings fully validated… but then I could also counter with my own feelings that you can’t argue too…. and then we can have a sharing feelings fest, and get no where? But at least our feelings will be center stage…

So…. how can I share my feelings, in a way… that isn’t perceived as defensive to you? Or is there only room for 1 person’s feelings to be fully validated??

(that’s sorta the underlying true real life acted out definition of psychological safety - safetyism)

Fryek

Deef Fascinating critiques… or is it just innuendo and slinging mud? with the whirlwind structure of random blasts from multiple directions…..

Really not so much critiques… just passing commentary… not quite even rising to the level of critique.

I’m not much of a “follower” of RG… I only “met him” via this group.

as far as “moral high ground” - meh… that’s a little more dedicated then I was intending with my post… mine was a bit more playful than that and it certainly stirred up some interesting comments from you, so all good.

Deef blindspot

good points… also something i would not have considered had I not “poked the bear” and gotten you to say more.

Deef I could challenge your behavior to match this baseless claim….
if you’re really done, then why are you bring up a history of old offenses?

again… fair enough… just stirring up the mud to see what else I can find in here.

Deef that’s continuity of an observation and theory… vs intentional fragmenting..

True dat. my comments were sloppy and not organized as a real argument….

Deef fucking inconsistency between their public fawn self and actual inner fragility

again… more gold from having stirred the pot. Yes… likely guilty as charged.

Deef Point me to a real self help group?? aren’t they all cults? even therapy? this charge is meaningless if his followers is within the norm…

yes, but it’s sometimes fun to be “master of the obvious” - thank you for the confirmation.

Deef energy and $$$ they put into this area

energy and money are the play things of privilege… privileged folks can throw money and pretend that they’re really interested when it’s just smoke and mirrors (not saying I am above this either).

Deef Which of the 3 is true? or all of them? or a 4th that’s unlisted???

all… just honestly seeing what sticks/ comes up… not very truly worried that you’re angry… nor that you’re venting… it’s pretty playful. No, you’re not “too angry” nor “too mean” nor “too emotional” - you just had enough of a rise that it was easy to point out and have false outrage… made for something to talk about.

I’m sure there’s some really important subtext to my “attacks” if you need to see them as such, but I don’t think they are genuine attacks.

Yes… well stated about the pragmatic benefits of stirring things up… that’s mostly my point.

Really not revenge though… other than friendly banter.

Deef reasons you were defensive?

Hmm… reading your thoughts here… this is interesting I can see that I was PROJECTING defensiveness, but it’s simply not what you do/did… it was not defensiveness. There was something there which I was seeing… but it was this anger over disruption of message/ distraction… very interesting, thank you for the explanation.

Deef I find this argument is weird…..

yeah… this was a stretch when i made it… it was really just playfully pointing out that you were going much deeper into a topic that I’d only touched on as a feeling… (wasn’t talking about my feelings, just that i had a feeling vs. a real thought with real basis/reasons)… all good.

Deef Is this is framing that finally others can see the light??

I suppose… maybe… but i doubt my feelings/ poorly constructed arguments are really genuinely “new” … more that I was jokingly putting myself out there as the “lead” - but recognizing that i was likely only catching on to things that you were pointing out. again… tongue planted firmly in cheek.

Deef ok.. so is this it… do you want your FEELINGS validated?? y

nah… see above… (wasn’t talking about my feelings, just that i had a feeling vs. a real thought with real basis/reasons). but all good in the end… I enjoyed the interesting insight.

Sorry if I served to make you feel different/ excluded/ etc as you allude to at the end, I was only trying to engage in friendly banter.

Deef

and that back and forth is a good opener for Day 2 exercise:

Exercise 2: Overcoming Codependency “Bedrock”

Step 1: List the people, places, scenarios where you find yourself triggered into the dissociative Fawn response

Step 2: If granting ourselves the permission to show up as our adult selves,
what action could we take instead of Fawning
that would be more appropriate and in line with our objectives and values

This will be interesting to read through other’s sharings on this…
I’m not sure wtf step 2 means… giving permission to adult self??? Who’s the one giving permission? the fawn self? The super ego? How do you know that a adult self isn’t another fawn self?

and how to judge what’s more appropriate and in line…. I don’t like the corrective mindset of that focus, feels managerial…. of which could easily fall into fawn self or super-ego territory….

1- now as for me…. uhm… I just had observation that I got triggered and defensive around honest genuine critiques of RG, that ended up really true…. that’s one scenario and person…..
Did it trigger dissociative fawn response in me?

Y’all judge my reply or back and forth in the RG rant that signed up members can view….
I would say I tend towards countering type response… more counter-dependent instead of dissociation … though countering could technically be a fawn.. I am adjusting my words and structures in an artificial way…. I think it’s part of the social game… if I say shit that doesn’t get through, then it’s just a monologue….. easily falling into incoherent nonsense like Newbie…. who claims she was all authentic and being herself…
I’d rather socially fawn and communicate with others, than be unfiltered unorganized clump of delusional self over-disclosure of over-sharing and confusion clump…..

2- my public social self, is I guess my flavor of adult fawn self… it is somewhat artificial… as it’s filtered and measured… I dunno if it’s fully anti-fawn… as part of my objective and values, is communication, building working relationships, exploring more territory (which means getting some level of cooperation with others)…. so it’s kinda hard not to fawn, yield, or soften to others…..
I might need to soften my natural capacity to be annoying to others, to get more social cooperation… that could be fawning….. and fakeness….
what’s the alternative???? If I’m more fully annoying and intense…. scares people away….. so no need for me to set boundaries…. but I’m also very alone and isolated….. by default…

Deef

Deef and how to judge what’s more appropriate and in line…. I don’t like the corrective mindset of that focus, feels managerial…. of which could easily fall into fawn self or super-ego territory….

Hahaha!!! I was right… RG is noticing the same, as noted in this updated guidance for day 5!!! Part of it is his codependence is getting triggered… but this new suggestion of finding a training partner from the forum??? interesting???!!

I think the issue isn’t just the focus, it’s the energy and vibe that’s coming out of RG, too much of his shame and shame defenses are bleeding out in the videos….. I played day 5 portion during zoom afterparty, and the way it landed …. or more so how it didn’t land… gave me a real time clue of how his energy is coming across….

In addition to reading the other forum posts, just like he has…. this over-reaction of… chill, take it easy, do what you can, etc. etc…. he’s seeing how harsh people’s inner critic and super ego is…. and they’re turning the exercises into really rushed vicious self-blame type mindsets…..

tsk tsk…

Deef

Fryek Sorry if I served to make you feel different/ excluded/ etc as you allude to at the end,
I was only trying to engage in friendly banter.

This is part of my blindspot…. I don’t sense it as friendly banter… and I’m still sensing some posturing and other linguistic magic going on with your response… though I do appreciate the point by point quote response… I consider that somewhat of a bridge… though that can also be used to fragment attention and fuzzy up context…

Fryek stirred the pot. Yes… likely guilty as charged.
fun to be “master of the obvious” - thank you for the confirmation.

Ok… so variations of stirring up the pot… was referenced a few times….but then this fun –> obvious – confirmation, seems like there’s a bit of a put down there?? or am I missing the obvious? or taking things to hyper-literal..of which is one of my blindspots.. but it’s also a strength in other situations..

you just had enough of a rise that it was easy to point out and
have false outrage… made for something to talk about.

so… is this framing.. that you made up a false outrage… seeing that I was emotional (isn’t there a bit of a moral judgment in there) and in a vulnerable position to fall for false outrage…. to ‘talk about’… or ‘stir the pot’.. or ‘friendly banter’?

Really not revenge though… other than friendly banter.

if so… why over-state the reframe… is there something wrong with revenge… and I think you last post started with a list of history…. why put that added energy and have the memory recall.. of a grievance without some sort of past hurt feeling or unresolved something going on???

Oh.. I suppose you could come back and say it was to just mess with me… stir the pot… friendly banter..

Am I also supposed to totally forget a long fairly well established pattern of rather fast impulsive like reactive comments and behaviors towards RG and certain other themes or issues that have come up before….. and just consider all of those just random events with no commonality?? and that this friendly stirring banter, had no emotional influences on you?

……
anyway…. I’ll consider alternative framing… maybe it had an good portion of information seeking motivation… I can relate to that…

Fryek but it was this anger over disruption of message/ distraction…
very interesting, thank you for the explanation.

Of the few times I’ve gotten heated in zoom groups… and also with limited moderation in here… I think it’s generally something around extreme disruption of theme…. for zoom meetings that’s both my strength and weakness… and if you want to knock me off balance or piss me off… that’s a great starting point, and likely will continue…

That’s also partially why I often have 3 times or much more video content, pointing to different angles to present things…. or I’ll try to pull from the group their material, so it obscures my focus or agenda…

With my outburst around gender wars, and prior around story writing both of those themes I think are super duper core fundamental issues of healing… and the sabotages were short cut approaches that just encourage more delusion and detachment from reality with the story writing zoom… and gender wars is like getting a cheap high by attacking the other individuals as stand-ins for the opposite tribe/gender…

How can one heal without some sort of pointer towards positive traits of feminine energy?? and how can one make sense of their life without a narrative story that is somewhat linked to both reality and a long rich and very deep history of literature pointing back towards the essence of being human?

I’m thinking of various quotes that talk about dying for something…. it can be framed with having a greater cause… or also having martyr archetype or energy in my essence..

Until you find something worth dying for, you’re not really living
— Rebecca St James

ok… I just deleted some paragraphs trying to share self-disclosure… of which it’s more journal material, and it wasn’t sincerely sought after to know….. but this is part of fucking codependency….. the energy and conversations around it, provoke and open up intimacy wounds… sometimes both wanting to share your humanity and have it seen.. but also feelings of being hyper-exposed and vulnerable…

Sam Smith - To Die For - 3m34s

This song probably has origins around deeply falling in love to levels of self-sacrifice and maybe abandonment… but the energy of the pointer… I resonate with that.. Having something to die for… that’s more motivating to me than avoiding death or clinging onto as much life as possible (or holding onto youth).. etc.

Deef

2022 30 Day Challenge Day 3
Exercise 3 : Creating an Ethic

Write down how you feel in your body/emotions when overgiving, fawning

Write down some examples of where you have overgiven/fawned and felt resentment afterwards

Write down when it is RIGHT for you to give and to serve the needs of others:
where, when, with whom - whats the limit?

How confident are you that you can detect that your giving is through compulsion?
1 to 10 - 10 is very confident that you can detect, 1 is you have no idea

When I do my giving do I think Im somewhat compelled through guilt/shame or fear?
Just answer Yes or No

If you struggle with emotional flashbacks, identifying your emotions please do the “stop emotional flashback” and “emotional literacy” exercises from this free course on youtube

The video adds a lot more context and nuance… and finally some warnings of just doing the opposite of fawn can lead to becoming an asshole, and isolated in the world….

He mentioned service as a value for some people in the video… of which I would say I’m towards that space, but more so service as a way of life. But I sense this is different than over-giving or fawning, as if I’m in service to others, and I sense I’m being taken advantage of, then I withdraw service. Or I can flip the service to a learning and growth opportunity for me…

#5 I could say I feel compelled by shame a lot of the time.. but that’s the norm in a shame culture… gotta navigate the face saving web, and play the role to keep from getting hammered on… without that being compelled, you’re just shirking duty, and being a self-centered ritual fucker-upper….

If I have time, I’d like to explore into Ethics in general… or a life ethic.. which veers towards code of conduct… and service would be part of that code… but service that enables others….. that would be invasive and boundary crossing… and enabling weakness, therefore you’re not being in service, giving, or helping… instead you’re stealing other people’s experience…. and therefore falling into a fawn, and fake adult type of self…

I should try to figure out how to participate in the 30dc forums, but how could I share anything I’ve posted in here?? I’d have to water it down like crazy… or it’s just wouldn’t work…

Which is back to my argument…. codependents suffocate others…. keep everyone else fucking half asleep… there’s no room to really wake up and grow…. we’re allowed and encouraged to judge the narcissist… but judging ourselves or the community harshly… I’d guess that’d trigger some sort of policing action by others or the moderator….
blehhh….

I still recall getting sanctioned during my 1st 30dc go-around….. I had too many potentially triggering words.. so I had to remove some….. ok.. found it.. day 5…. this is unedited version:

The emotional literacy words were too intense…. triggering???
Fucking shit… catering to weakness…. enabling weakness….. too fucking coddling….

not much space to allow the inner savage parts to come out and become integrated…. so always will be sitting ducks for narcissists and other more aggressive personalities in the world….. tsk tsk….

Is it about over-giving and fawning??? If you can’t defend your interests out in the real world…. then you have to do indirect ways of finding a place and getting needs met through covert contracts….

Deef

Since this 30dc is likely mirroring the January one, I can continue along on here, without the restrictions of the invisible forum moderators and other ‘super empath’ group think enforcers….

exercise 3 from January:

Deef

2022 30 Day Challenge Day 3
Exercise 3 : Creating an Ethic

Write down how you feel in your body/emotions when overgiving, fawning

Write down some examples of where you have overgiven/fawned and felt resentment afterwards

Write down when it is RIGHT for you to give and to serve the needs of others:
where, when, with whom - whats the limit?

How confident are you that you can detect that your giving is through compulsion?
1 to 10 - 10 is very confident that you can detect, 1 is you have no idea

When I do my giving do I think Im somewhat compelled through guilt/shame or fear?
Just answer Yes or No

If you struggle with emotional flashbacks, identifying your emotions please do the “stop emotional flashback” and “emotional literacy” exercises from this free course on youtube

The video adds a lot more context and nuance… and finally some warnings of just doing the opposite of fawn can lead to becoming an asshole, and isolated in the world….

re #1 & 2 - both of these are digging up memories of past resentment, where a codependent had a secret contract of giving too much, and expecting reciprocal return, then are surprised and resentful that the other person didn’t honor this secret contract.

#3 is an improvement as it’s directing attention towards some sort of ideal of giving…. I think it’s kinda missing the skill of negotiating a transaction, which needs underlying skill of awareness of one’s needs and wants, along with feeling out whether the other can meet those needs, along with what incentives or things that can be bartered or traded in order to incentivize the other to agreement of a transaction…

#3 gets into dangerous short cut territory, if one just makes and states demands based on personal fantasy, and sets boundaries, imposing one’s own delusions onto others….

#4 How confident are you that you can detect that your giving is through compulsion?

This is fucking weird mental focus…… instead of putting your attention on your needs and wants, along with details of a more explicit verbal agreement with the other person, and monitoring the transaction. This question is policing one’s own behavior to monitor over-giving?? wtf???

Over-giving isn’t even a problem if you have a decent negotiated transaction, exchange or trade…. it’s a stupid and wasted target to monitor…. because if you’re going into relationships with this miserly and self-obsessed attitude…. well you’re gonna lose future interactions with others… because you’re the opposite of generous and genuine….. you’re a fucking self centered, self-conscious neurotic person who’s stuck in transactional love, instead of investing in relationships so that you’ll get a long term return of trusted people and wide social network….

#5 When I do my giving do I think Im somewhat compelled through guilt/shame or fear?
Just answer Yes or No

WTF is this question? Giving uhm… means give….. when you gift something to someone… isn’t that a gift… which means no compelling…. no transaction…. maybe an investment…or a desire to do something nice for another person….

But let’s go with it…. if this is a codependent who’s a people pleaser and gives out of guilt/shame or fear…. it sounds like they’re giving into emotional terrorism??? and let’s say that’s true… yes….. then wouldn’t it be better focus to dig a bit deeper and look for the leverage the other person has, who’s using fucking emotional terrorism on you…..

and then once you find that leverage, try to counter it…. or just fucking call it out, and say no, or say nothing.. or say yes, and don’t do it….

but…. you do risk getting secretly erased and kicked out a 30dc group…. if you follow my advice….

….. i will try to watch the video for this exercise later and add on additional comments if needed…

Deef

Okay… I finally posted in one of the exercises forum, though I dunno if it’s fitting, as I’m pretty sure I’m odd ball type of posting… I do like the ethic and service themes…. but this exercise seems to be more focused on overgiving and resentment….

here’s my post

and the attached pic is from July 2017 meetup group on Intimacy…. I stumbled upon it while searching through visuals to prep for Sat’s in-person meetup…

Scanning through earlier photos of my past meetups, along with brainstorming notes…. I’m much more meta and impersonal flavor… but there’s a purity to that focus…. but probably doesn’t connect well with the masses?

Deef

Day 4 is a very short video and dives into values

Core Values Exercise

Go to your favourite search engine and search “core values list”

Choose 10 values from that list

Chop them down to the top 5

Prioritise the top 5 from 5 to 1 (with 1 being the MOST important)

Please write a few notes about how behaving codependently aligns or does not align with your values.

What new actions could you take in future where/with whom you typically go into a fawn response so that your behaviour would more in alignment with your values.

Ackkk…. I can go with the first 4 steps… but the 5th step has that corrective mindset, and then 6th step of micromanaging behaviors…… if your values are true to you, don’t they live through you???? correcting behaviors that don’t match your values, probably means there’s hidden values and unmet needs… which are driving the codependent behaviors…

or.. you’re living from avoidance, fears, shame, fantasy, delusion, lethargy… whatever..??

I’m not immune from that either… but lemme see how I’m doing with my values from 2020 30 day challenge:
Freedom, Harmony, Creativity, Adventure, Playfulness

End of 2021 had a bit of creative burn out…. so adventure, creativity and playfulness was lacking….
but 2022 is slowly looking a bit more up, I’m getting a delusional refocus of trying to take on safetyism and cry-bullies… that ups my sense of adventure, creativity, and playfulness…. but it’s a bit of a gamble in the freedom domain… if I can get some of it done, I’ll definitely have more freedom to not fucking tip toe around all the non-sense of other’s fragile emotions and ego defenses…. but I’m going against the norm that’s well entrenched… so my freedoms and voice could get squashed like a bug….

What’s the alternative though? adjusting to this safety snowflake culture, where my social blindness is already lagging to guess what the masses find as socially acceptable…. now I’m supposed to obsess and worry about how my behaviors, words, language, tone, energy, vibe, microexpressions, etc. might impact some fragile dysregulated cray cray super empath….. it’s a lose-lose situation…. so if I’m gonna fucking fail… i’d rather do it front on…

Deef

Day 4 exercise commentary…

Deef Day 4 is a very short video and dives into values

Core Values Exercise

Go to your favourite search engine and search “core values list”

Choose 10 values from that list

Chop them down to the top 5

Prioritise the top 5 from 5 to 1 (with 1 being the MOST important)

Please write a few notes about how behaving codependently aligns or does not align with your values.

What new actions could you take in future where/with whom you typically go into a fawn response so that your behaviour would more in alignment with your values.

Re 1 to 3, I’m skeptical of just looking and choosing values consciously….. in prior 30dc, he also did this but asked people to revisit the values list regularly….

I would add some tweak to look at one’s own history of extreme behaviors and reactions… then reverse engineer what values are signified by actual behaviors…. or you could also look into what you hate, reject, judge harshly… that also offers clues on what your true values are….

You have to start with the values you already have…. just choosing what you want, kinda makes it easy to fall into another shared fantasy….

Please write a few notes about how behaving codependently aligns or does not align with your values.

This feels like a pattern of scapegoating ‘codependence’ as an abstract target……. induces shame and guilt.. and unfairly attacks the behaviors, instead of addressing the underlying unmet needs and wants… or undeveloped skills that are behind codependent ways of coping….

What new actions could you take in future where/with whom you typically go into a fawn response so that your behaviour would more in alignment with your values.

I would argue with the assumptions in here…. I’d argue that your behaviors are most always in alignment with your values… and just picking new values from a list, isn’t gonna change your values so easily…

You can’t just pick some fantasy goal.. of like being a professional sports athlete, and just the belief and mental choice, is gonna be enough….. lots of practice, training, coaching, along with having actual gifted talent, opportunity, youth, etc.. is also part of the equation…..

Changing codependence, by choosing some new values… might work for low stress situations where you can use will-power to over-ride habitual patterns…. but under genuine stress… or genuine love bombing fantasy….. old patterns still win out…. where’s evidence that writing some new values, is gonna change deep desires, and patterns of repetition compulsion??

ie… this clip from recent RG instagram stories..
49s

He defines codependence as a neurotic desire to avoid conflict or potential predation at ALL costs.

I’d argue that his wimpy and secretive behavior of passively managing constantly shifting rules in the 30dc…. is evidence that he still avoids conflict at all costs…. this is a pretty consistent pattern in his personal reveals through-out the pandemic…. I remember when he used to do instagram lives with random video participants… he regularly just lets the other person take over…. he still has very weak social conflict skills…..

2m55s

and this from the short lived inner circle…. RG doesn’t do personal boundaries, he just quiet, introverted & passive. He denies and limits his personal expression & opinions with others.

So…… in this 30dc the focus on over-giving is a red herring/straw-man… I’d argue that conflict aversion, covert contracts, and sucky communication/negotiation skills is more of the issue….. and under that… is un-integrated aggression, inverted aggression, or anger about one’s own anger….. and in that state, you get consistently run over in the real world…. and taken advantage of by predators…

Deef

I think this might highlight a major difference between my approach and what’s going on in the 30dc, though what RG is teaching is within the norm of what most of self-help and therapy leans towards…

Excerpt from my self navigation model where emotions are actively used to decipher what inner child and deeper self (soul) and spirit (public collective self) are already guiding one’s life… and how to navigate with those invisible threads.

While I’d argue this corrective approach in the 30dc is just more fawning. As it’s the super-ego that’s still in charge. Or you defer to RG as wounded healer in role of surrogate parent figure. Which isn’t much different than giving up your power to a narcissist.

Pulled from 5/16/20 Befriending the SuperEgo zoom meetup.
I linked the Traditional Chinese Medicine 5 elements + Air (breath/spirit), as additional framing of natural energies vs emotions.

Most of the course so far has been playing with left side of metal & fire… The objective realms of interpersonal relationships, and then the inner realms of self-esteem/character.

The struggle is between personal wants & needs, vs expectations from others, family, community, society…

Copying shit is only bare minimum starting point of working towards dignity and civic part of society…
And Connect + Service is a constant dance of your collective we self… viewing it transactionally, or in lens of resentment… is boundary confusion…. your wants and needs as your inner world… others and outer world are expectations that need to be met, or society threatens social sanctions and physical/financial penalties…

building up a false character by writing out a fantasy of how one can get their wants and needs met, without earning it in society by proving yourself as a dignified responsible citizen….. is fucking delusional and entitled…

Maybe… somehow modern society has mistaken consumer = citizen??
citizenship is a privilege… social freedom is a privilege… credit is a privilege….

of which greater forces can take away those privileges if you don’t meet expectations… (FAWNing)

Over judge your fawning capacity at your own peril…

ChantalCEM

Deef they’re turning the exercises into really rushed vicious self-blame type mindsets…..

Start to sense some flavours of overdoing the vicious self-blame on the RG community forum - guessing it’s a way of getting more likes (dopamine rush?) or some other unmet need??

Deef

Onto revisiting day 5 & 6

In the January 30dc by day 5, he started seeing how stressed members were with just 4 days of exercises….. and over-corrected with this post….

Deef Hahaha!!! I was right… RG is noticing the same, as noted in this updated guidance for day 5!!!
Part of it is his codependence is getting triggered… but this new suggestion of finding a training partner from the forum??? interesting???!!

Then dropped the ball a bit with Day 6… poor delegation, or just sloppyness..

Deef Followers were starting to panic cuz Day 6 came a little late…. so RG apologies this way:

So instead of people focusing on their work, they getting lost with inconsistent structure of the program? The sudden easing, which contradicts the energy of the prior homework prompts… then add on tip of finding a training partner suggestion, which didn’t have any follow-up repetition or additional tips…

so…. now onto Day 5 & 6 and evaluating the exercises -

Deef
Day 5 Exercise : Authentic Self Blockers

List the external things that you think STOP you

from being your authentic self

giving up the addiction to a codependent response.

List the internal things that you think you stop you.

1- external focus on what’s in the way…. not terrible.. but the targets… of authentic self that could be a bit shaming and a bit tricky as the target is abstract…. is it reasonable to expect a codependent to have a clear idea of what authenticity is like? If it’s a life of denied expression and constant fawning shape-shifting to stay safe and survive.. I’d argue that codependent’s have no clue what their authentic self is…. so trying to identify what’s stopping you from it… that’s kinda like a mental puzzle….

the 2nd part of addiction to codependent response… If you’re using addiction metaphor… then only if it were so easy as just stopping the addiction.. going cold turkey….. it typically doesn’t work so easily with chemical addictions…

Though… maybe one could try to change their social networks and peers to less enabling, and more encouraging and challenging towards shared reality, working towards one’s better self, and less avoidance…. but that’s not so easy, when enabling and empty validation is the norm of support communities, therapists, wounded healers, and also society in general….

#2 - internal things? uhm…. inner critic, terror of negative emotions….. trying to list all this stuff out does exactly what??

On the surface, clarifying obstacles can be useful…. but in this situation with codependence….. I’d argue it’s more about unmet needs and undeveloped skills vs obstacles that are in the way…. that’s playing into guilt issues, which is already overdone….

Day 6 Exercise: Controlling Inner Dialogue and Creating Affirmations

Create 3 affirmations that are around the belief
“it is ok for me to assert my boundaries” and
“it is good for me to choose to no longer be in abusive relationships”

The affirmations should be close to your current LIVED REALITY and not create a superego injunction of “bs!”

This means you can start with qualifiers like “I can learn over time to be more…”

Explore and experiment.

Hmm….. this isn’t so terrible, with the #3 qualifier…. that at least makes the affirmation a bit more balanced over time… instead of magical thinking….

Controlling inner dialogue though, is sort of the territory of shrinking the inner critic in Pete Walker’s model…. and just
developing affirmations that give yourself permission to set boundaries and leave abuse…. how well do these affirmations work when you’re under love bombing or gaslighting from an aggressive monologuing manipulator who can project a dissociative entrainment mental field???

Fighting a professional monologuer with your own rail roading monologuing inside…. how well does that work?? at best it’s neutral, or stale mate… except the manipulator is often better at telling a story and pulling emotional strings… so countering with self-gaslighting… is questionable….

5m17s

however adding some qualifiers, is adding some perspective and weakening the time urgency…… though i’m doubtful how much repeating an affirmation actually anchors into one’s self…..

I might lean more on somatic grounding techniques…… flooding yourself in nature, hot baths, slow breathing techniques, eating or drinking something heavy, going for a walk/hike, screaming, etc….

and if the inner dialogue is the issue, then is it the inner critic…… I’d also lean towards self-inquiry practice and starting a dialogue with your inner voices and protector/manager/fire-fighter parts, in order to sort through all the noise by giving it space, entertaining their concerns, and trying to work with them, instead of fighting fire w/ fire…. which is sort of playing into extreme fire-fighter’s goals of distraction….. tsk tsk…

……. oh…. also the flow of the exercises isn’t that natural.. they don’t link well, or they’re not additive with the prior ones…. that makes it harder for the mind to digest and integrate…. without that, it might be reinforcing fragmenting and compartmentalizing….. which is already overused by codependents…..

Deef

Followers were starting to panic cuz Day 6 came a little late…. so RG apologies this way:

with this 48s video too:

A photo of puppy changes things???

reminds me excerpts from listening to The Boy Crisis recently:

moms are more likely to set boundaries, whereas dads are more likely to enforce boundaries.
For example, although a mom is more likely to set an early bedtime, single moms are more than three times as likely as single dads to let younger kids get away with late or irregular bedtimes.

One boy half-joked, “My mom warns and warns; it’s like she ‘cries wolf.’ My dad gives us one warning, and then he becomes the wolf.”

We have seen that the amount of time a father spends with a child is “one of the strongest predictors of empathy in adulthood.” Teaching a child to treat boundaries seriously teaches him or her to respect the needs of others. Respecting another’s needs contributes to empathy.

The group might be projecting dad energy to RG, but I think he had more of an absentee dad figure growing up, so he doesn’t know. He manages boundaries more like a mom.

But his exterior, and fawn self of tough guy, creates an illusion of disciplined father figure…

Do people use Richard Grannon as an internalized superego - parent/guru figure? 1m59s

But how many in the 30dc are like this woman from IG??? Not really listening to RG, more so using him as a internalized parent figure crutch… to brainwash and self-blame judge themselves to keep their inner children in line…

But using RG as a masculine father role, while his behavior is more feminine mom boundaries…. people will end up modeling his behavior more than the actual content of the teachings…

ChantalCEM

Deef A photo of puppy changes things???

Urge to practice Inner Rebel Child 🤷‍♀️

« Previous Page Next Page »